Monday, July 27, 2020

Why were the backs of the cap iron originally treated

First a quick recap.
I mentioned a few times that the back on some of my cap irons looked like they had originally some sort of coatings on them.  Black on the older English irons then some sort of blue on Stanley cap irons until roughly Type 12, which saw the introduction of the high knob.
I have no idea what that coating was or is, let alone if it is an additional coating or the results of the thermal treatment of the blade thru its manufacture.  After all you can buy steel today to make handsaw which still has a blueish coating on one side, for the user to remove, via abrasion.

My thinking was, this extra step was to mitigate rust formation between both metal plates (irons), but then they stopped that practice around the great depression 1929-30s.
Extra costly step??

So one of my reader, Steve and I have been discussing back and forth trying to solve that mystery.
I am of the opinion it must be a coating, he is more incline to think its a result of the manufacturing steps (EG heat treatment).

Here are the two blades I picked., both Stanley.
You can definitively see the remnants of something blueish.
But what is it??.

It really spike my curiosity, so in a  effort to see if we could narrow it down or establish what it probably is, I took out my USB microscope and had a closer look.

My elaborate and scientific method of doing stuff.
In this pic, I am looking at the dressed edge of the cap iron

There are many version of this microscope, resolution, both in optics and chip size etc.
But you can buy a cheap one like mine for about $30 delivered to your door straight from China (just do a quick google search).  AMscope, call them kids microscope simply because they can also sell you much higher quality and prices.  But don't let the low price fool you, they can be very handy for taking a closer look at practically anything.  I use it when sharpening to inspect problem edges.

.
Mine is like the one on the left.
Its only drawback is the very finicky focusing,
the stand being flimsy.
You have to hold your breath when taking the pic :-)
What do you want for $20? 

So have a look at what I found.
If anyone can help us identify it, please leave a comment.
First up, the infamous Blueish coating from Stanley



Near the top of the cap iron

Where the cap iron meet the blade.
Often the inside of the curvature is clear steel (bright).
but this one definitively shows signs of it till the edge


Then lets look at the plain steel one on a more modern Stanley Type.

The edge that meet the iron.
Can you see shavings jamming in there? Yes

Around the big hole to clear screw that tighten every thing together on the frog.
You can clearly see evidences of stamping to cut the hole

The inside threads cut into the cap iron to attach the cutting iron

 And again here they are together with and without the flash.

No flash

Flash on

The top sides.
Flash on
I moved them around in an effort to show the change in curvature at the edge.
The oldest one (blue) has a more pronounced curvature and hump.
The newer one is mostly bent at the edge


Finally lets look at the English black coated ones
Hummm on closer look, they sure look very similar to the blueish Stanley...

The blades in question

AUBURN TOOLS CO
THISTLE
TRADE MARK
WARRANTED

English maker?  It got a 
I SORBY
SHEFFIELD cap iron

The back no flash

The back with the flash on

To give you an idea of the magnification I'm using,
this is what the smooth grey looks like on my paper

Near the start of the curvature on the cap iron.
looks a lot like Stanley

The inside threads cut on the brass nut

How the brass nut is swaged (tight compressed fit)

Near the top of the cap iron

The brass nut seen from the other side, the show side


Next one up

THOMAS TURNER
WARRANTED
CAST STEEL

The back flash on

Yes we have pockets of rust. 
Barely visible to the naked eye

See how the scratch lines seems to skip?
It is because you are looking at a crater of a pitted area.

Strangely this rust is only attached to the blue coating??
It sacrificed itself to protect the steel?? :-)

The show side of the bras nut

Finally lets have a quick look at one of my prior working edge blade, Hint the Thomas Turner

In its defence that edge has been thru the wire wheel
The bevel side

The back side.
I had to turn down the LEDs illumination it was too white out (shiny)
Yap, nicks


The back side.
Notice the hollow in the back, near the edge

Hard to see the bevel.
Notice the remnants of an hollow edge

The other blade Thistle, has not been sharpened yet


One thing I did not looked at is how a blued edge from heat  or a gun bluing treatment would look like under the microscope, having none of the above.  If you do have access to those and one of those microscope, would love to see how it looks abraded

And just because, lets have a look at some wood.
Can you identify the species?







OK there you go.
If that did not convinced you how useful this "kid" toys is, I gave it my best shot :-)
Seriously, it is a very handy tool to have. Oh and the kids and grand kids can have fun with it too.
There are of course versions who plug directly in your phone (IOS and Android), making them more portable.  Mine is attached to my PC via USB.



Bob, the grand kid at heart.  Never cease to explore your world.

12 comments:

  1. Many WW blogs are rehash of the same old stuff. Yours always provides unique and fascinating content. A real treasure trove of information. I want to "save" them all. Thank you for that!

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  2. Bob, I can't help identify the bluish stuff, but these posts are really interesting. I love the magnified pics, of both the tools and of wood end grain. Guessing the last one is beech and (one of) the 3rd or 4th pic is white oak. Don't know the others.

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  3. Thanks Jim, I try :-)
    I am just documenting what I discover or find along the way.
    It is a never ending process, but by writing it down, it helps me remember also :-)

    Bob, the big kid, I remain

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  4. Hi Matt Thanks. I cannot tell you off hand which species is which, but Im pretty sure they were all exotics. I believe the last one was Lacewood?
    I gonna have to find out, I just recently moved those pieces of wood I was using. I am in the process of storing tools back in my shop.
    AKA lets move everything around at least once :-)

    Bob

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  5. The non shiny surface on the back of the cast steel cap irons is probably from the manufacturing process. Only the functional part would be smoothed.

    Case in point: https://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/m3528.html

    In this case, the black part of the blade does not require any protection. Who cares if the top of the blade rusts? Rust near the edge is a big problem but there is no black steel there.

    I think that the extra finishing is the result of modern tastes and processes that require or enable more complete metal finishing.

    Also take a look at Japanese chisels and irons made using traditional processes. Finished where necessary, mill finish everywhere else.

    I'm confident that the mill finishes were process artifacts left there to save time, not to prevent corrosion. If that were still a modern concern, plating and stainless grades of steel would solve the problem but the blade is still vulnerable because any surface finish would be removed during sharpening.

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  6. Yay!
    Still not a robot!

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  7. Thanks again Steve
    Always appreciates your comments and glad to hear you are not a robot :-)

    Bob

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  8. Bob,

    I've a few blue ones,always figured it was gun blueing

    ken

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  9. Swaging is the term for the deformation of the brass nut into the cap iron.

    That Turner iron is Warranted. Why don't you return it for a new one and see if it's blue or black?

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  10. Ha I knew I had the wrong term, could not think of it.
    Thank you Steve, Ill corrected the post.

    The vast majority of my irons are indeed Warranted, some even Superior :-) Did some more research into it, it would appears that coating was sort of a gun bluing, which has "some" rust proofing protection. They probably used some sort of hot bluing, I will be experimenting with cold bluing.

    Bob, looking for Thomas Turner contact info to return my blade :-)

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  11. The Birchwood-Casey stuff? It's OK. Not great.

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  12. Yes Steve the Casey stuff, about the only way I can think to experiment with blueing. I am now convinced that the treatment (manufacturing artifact) is indeed a blued surface. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_%28steel%29
    Look at the last video from Chris, his Crucible scrapers are blue (and look a lot lot our older back irons) he mentioned briefly it offer some rust protection.

    In my empirical evidences, the blued surface of the cap irons did afford some rust protection. How much? Hard to tell after all these years, but i can see (?) a difference
    Bob

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