The Marples No 6809 Combination square and miter cutter

A recent find that spurred my previous posts on small work holders, it came along  some of those :-)

It is a combination cramp and mitre box for cutting 90 or 45 degrees cuts.

It was targeted to the picture frame shop works.

It will handle up to 2 in wide pieces and up to 1-3/4 in thick pieces

Came complete with original box and papers.

The recommended crosscut saw is a 12 inch Tenon saw.

Instruction are for both the No 6808 Jr and 6809.

The difference? 6808, sometimes referred to as the Junior,  only did 45 degrees cut

Top illustration is 6808 (2 posts), bottom is 6809 (4 posts)

Hum, did the silica packet and Rust preventive paper worked??

The top is remarkably in good shape.

Those metal sliders (2) on each post are to set the maximum depth of cut.

They are adjusted to touch the back bar on your backsaw.

You can then do lap joinery, cut small dadoes etc.

The bottom having bare machined surface on the casting got some rust.

This were the rust stain comes from on the papers inside.

For a tool about 60 years old, not bad at all.

How accurate is it?

Lets find out.

The tools used in this experiment:

Stanley miter square No 16 Type 3

Groz 6 in Machinist square grade B

Veritas set up blocks set

Flat screwdriver and measuring tape  

Notice the differences in width for the saw slot?

NEVER insert or remove the saw from the top.

ALWAYS from the side.  The larger area is to protect the saw set on the blade.

I seems to notice that on later models the slot is larger.

The saw I'm using is a Jackson Warranted Superior, 

a Disston second line, 12 X almost 3 in small crosscut saw.

Yes was probably 3 in new.  That plate fit well.

The saw resting on its back spline.

Maximum stated capacity is 1-3/4 in, so you need a 3 to 4 in saw.

Just barely clear the bottom kerf in the casting.

But if it was, should adjust the stops up a bit to cleared, or you will damages the teeth

I thought of using a setup block for ease of adjustments.  

Two issues: When screwed in, the guide toe in, grabbing the block, and...

Of course at rest the saw being slightly below the deck, 

we loose some height, barely half inch left of our 9/16 in.

Not very precise measurements but you get the idea.

Adjusting the saw stops, the saw spline is resting snugly on it.

Pushing down it stay put, with no tendency to jump.

Getting to line them up just so, could be a tad finicky, so I would dedicate one saw to it.

Here is a nice touch.  The Tommy bar is secured in place, 

meaning that you can rotate it while the jig is flat on the bench

Lets cut some wood

That saw I'm using has practically zero set, not cutting thru it, 

just establishing a kerf,  two 45s and one 90

Bang on, according to Mr Stanley

Bang on

Yes, make a nice 90

and the 90 also pretty well bang on

The obvious question now becomes: How old is it??

Truth is, researching Marples history can get a tad confusing, so many name permutations, mergers and etc not to mentioned Williams Marples and Joseph Marples both made tools, both are related but ran different companies.  A good place to wrap your head around this is found here 

An earlier Green Shamrock version...

When did they start and stop making green tools??

My current guesses are 1959-196XX

Pic from Ebay

... and its box

Pic from Ebay

On this later version (Record) they stopped machining the top surfaces.

I have seen examples with no machining on the bottom also, mostly Record Ridgway.

This example is missing one guide on rear 90 degrees post.
Good luck finding replacement...

Pic from Ebay

From 1958 catalog.

From 1959 catalog

Showing 6806 and 6807 which is a 14 in tenon saw to be used with 6806

and 6808 Jr for which they recommended a 12 in backsaw No 2526

Extracted from Internet archives

The 6806 was bigger, why it use a 14 in saw, and had reversible jaws to accommodate sprung moulding.  If you ever tried to cut crown mouldings on the flat, you know what I mean. 

The steps allows the moulding to be held at the correct angle, enabling it to cut precise 45 miters.

Jaws are shown reversed to the flat side.  There are no provisions to adjust the saw out of the groove if it is too tall for the top posts.  No 6808, later replaced by MR6807 are smaller hence were called Jr. 

pics from  Antique tooltique

1961 catalog

1962-64 catalog

1965 catalog, new logo

These catalog covers pics are from a reference site

Interestingly, the logo on the box looks like the logo on the 62-64 catalog, while the logo on the inside instruction sheet looks like the new one introduced in 1965.
That would seems to indicate a mid 60s tool.

The No 6808, seems to have been replaced by the MR 6807 (MR as in Marples Record or Marples Ridgway) which was manufactured in later years under Record.  They could not called it 6807 since that was already in use for a backsaw.
Again, only cut 45 degrees

Looks early 80s

Notice the depth stop are long gone.

All three above pics from  Antique tooltique

Marples Ridgway version of same tool, MR6807

Pic from Ebay

Marples Ridgway Bahco Record tools Ltd. 

Irwin who are you?? Cue music :-)

But wait there is more!!
It also came with another tool in its box, the seller telling me that they went together (Huuh??)
Well not with that tool, but for the next step when you have cut your frame pieces and are assembling them, with a cramp.  Got both for $20 so sure, why not.

The Elwood multi purpose cramp (British for Clamp)

The instruction sheet is pasted on the box cover

How I figured it is to be used.

Mine is missing the steel cable that came with it

Different packaging

Pic from Antique tooltique

Shown complete with the cable, about 5 or 6 ft long

Pic from Ebay

Since mine still has the patent No on it, lets look it up
GB 798851 on espace.net

There it is, patented on 30 Jul 1958.

You can see how the cable is pulled, tightening the frame as you screw it in.

Screen shot.

Since my seller believed that they went together, it is very possible that they came to him together since whomever bought it years ago probably did bought the mitre guide and frame cramp about the same time frame.  Everything seems to point to early to mid 60s for the pair.


So how good are those mitre gizmos?  Well honestly, if they get me close, that is good enough cause they go next on my shooting board.  You need a clean surface, no saw fuzz to check for 90 and 45 anyway, so yeah, awesome :-)

Bob, with yet another mitre cutting tool.

PS I read somewhere on line in a forum discussing this tool that they were garbage, broke it trying to put the saw in, only good as a corner clamp.  Really? NO, it's a real precision tool when used correctly with a proper real saw well tuned.  Oh and the operator, fired yourself and get someone that known something about tools :-)

Further adventures in resawing

So were I left last nite, I was only a couples inches from both ends.  Considering, my board is roughly 21 X 8 inches I have a way to go and I am starting to drift right.  Need some course correction.

When I face a problem I like to mull it over a good glass of cold beverage by the relaxing 

sound of a fire, which erases previous woodworking masterpieces screwups.

So relaxing :-)

One idea that keep pooping up was why not give that frame resaw a try.  The blade is rusty, a bit dull and the some tooth misshapen, but what the Heh!

Yes it works surprisingly well, but I could sure uses more space around it.

Tried from both sides, still a bit off body position, that cannot be good.

Lets try a different vice in the garage.

My record Auto vice No 74

I went for this one because it is my only bench vice that rotate.  Hoping to get a better angle at my piece of wood.

RECORD AUTO VICE No 74

Before they got into plane making, Record was mostly producing vices. C&J Hampton trading as Record tools, manufactured various patterns of vices.  Mechanics vices, steel vice, cast iron vices, over 91 types / models for various trades: Mechanics, pipe fitters, woodworkers etc
Most Record vices we are familiar today are painted (enamel) blue, but back then they also used red to distinguished the cast steel ones (Red) from the cast iron ones (Blue)

The Auto vice No 74 was a 4 in wide jaw X 4-1/2 in opening, made with special features for car mechanics, hence the name Auto (vice) for No 74 and Garage (vice) for No 75

Auto vice No 74

 There was also a bigger brother the No 75

Auto vice No 75

Brochure extolling special features of vice.

Pic from Progress is fine blog

On mine there is a patent number/date 310723/28.  Lets have a look under British patents

The rotating base is activated by loosening the large wing nut,  lift the vise body rotate right or left and drop back into preset casting.

You can see the preset positions in the fixed plate casting.

That one has the optional vise jaws liners (a pair).

Pic from EBay

Back to our resawing in progress...

Vice rotated as far as practical to get a good clearances in front.

Using the saw smaller kerf, I was able to coax the cut line back in.

In use I put my arms on each long sides, easier to balance.

Cut line restored, I'm happy.

This saw cut amazingly well, in spite of itself !!
And I got enough clearances for a full stroke.

Pulled all the way.

Pushed all the way.

You really get to used just about the whole saw plate.

Holding the board vertically is another story.

The board up front push back on the forward stroke.

Flipping the board in the back position of the vise, it pull back on the return stroke if you don't eased up enough on the saw frame.
OK, not ideal, but that was interesting results.  I am going to built some sort of saw bench to handle this type of resaw.  It works amazingly fast and is easy to balance the saw, you quickly get the hang of it.

As this type of frame resaws goes, mine is a bit on the smallish sizes.

The frame is about 37-1/2 in high.

The blade is about 29-1/2 in long.

Considering my board is 21 in long and my saw blade 29-1/2 in long, I cannot give a long enough push or pull to clear all the saw dust between the teeth.

The bade is shining up from its work out.

Looks at the saw dust hanging between some teeth, 

they never exit the wood to expel.

Its smaller kerf and 5 TPI makes it quite fast, faster than my former speed demon, Disston No D8.

BTW, I answered Ralph in a previous comment that the D8 was 5 TPI, its not, see pics.

Disston D8 3 TPI / 4 PPI

Notice some tooth are starting to get misshapen, Mea Culpea.

I tend to quickly touch up my teeth between full sharpening session were the teeth will be restored.

Its a lazy habit to just sharpen the tip, but it work for me.  I pay the piper later.

The frame resaw blade 1 in wide 5 TPI.  

Notice the changing tooth shapes, someone is lazier than me :-)

Upon close inspection, the blade is in better shape than expected

and it works, bonus !

So after all that, my kerfs are brought back in line and I am down about 3 some inches on both sides
21 - (3+3) = 15 inches to go... a subdue yeah!!!

I can see power tools in a near future to the rescue, I'm a bit constrained by time.

A fun experience nonetheless and surprising results.

Bob, overdue for a nap